I wonder how much of gaming sales are from repeat customers who liked previous versions of the game or other games by the maker, and how much is from new customers, buying the game because of ads and hype, or a cold search for games of a certain genera at amazon or similar or from the info on the box at a store, or a recommendation from a friend? My impression is that games are one-off deals. Many customers probably buy the game without knowing the company's past games and history on a whim, due to ads or the box catching their interest while in a store. And later, if it didn't suit them, they don't retain the info of who made it (unless something really ticked them off) and may well buy another game from that company for the same reasons they bought the first one.Most people are casual gamers I would imagine, rather than hard core, so they don't put a lot of stock in games and treat them like films. I'll bet these casual gamers are the ones being specifically targeted now, since once the person has bought the game, they've got their money, and if the person doesn't like the game after trying it, who cares, the ads/store displays are bound to bring in other customers. Sometimes these companies may take a hefty hit when the backlash is huge and people condemn the game in large numbers, but most of the time dissatisfied customers simply bin the game and move on to something else and 6 months on down the line, buy something else from the same company, not remembering the company made the turkey they binned 6 months previous.

The point of all that I just wrote above is that if people want their dissatisfaction known, and to have any effect, they have to be very vocal about their complaints and back those up with refusals to buy from that company. This encourages the silent majority who probably wouldn't have said anything to then speak up. And it also sends a message to the company they'll be sure to hear about why their sales are down. They may not know otherwise.

The mod hub which steam will host was a good move.  It promises to strengthen the franchise by introducing more players to the beauty of modding.  But the way in which Valve distributes Steamworks is sure to alienate many players.  Not just the players who find they can't play the game, or who have to 'jump through hoops' to get the client working right.  steam has already alienated fanatic civers.  And the fanatics who frequent fan sites, are the group most likely to positively embrace steamworks networking features.   Only time will tell.  But my money is on steam hurting the Civ franchise more that it helps.

Now, I do wonder at the reason why 2k still hasn't given us the answers they promised.  It harms them to continue to delay these answers that they've committed to giving.  Its been more than a month now that Elizabeth said they were checking into this for us.  Perhaps Firaxis, 2k and steam are in negotiations to change how the steam client works with Civ5?  steam client won't not have to run for SP games? Game patches won't be forced? LAN play won't have to connect to steam? Civ5 not a steam ESD exclusive? etc.  Or maybe 2k drags their feet to collect as many pre-order sales as possible?  Or something else?

I doubt it. The #1 rule for game forums of any size is that the complainers are always louder then everybody else. People who are happy don't go to the forums to say it in anywhere near the number that people go to complain. It's not a good sample at all.

We're talking about at the absolute most, 1% of the customer base (and really it's smaller then that most likely). Of that, the ratio of unhappy people to happy people will be higher then it is in the other 99%.

Unless something like the Demigod launch mess happens, there won't be a backlash of any real size. Even amongst the people complaining, a bunch of them will buy the game anyway (because gamers are like that) and once they start playing they'll be too busy to complain as much.

And yet games that have a 1% population of complainers can still fail. Do you really want me to list the long lines of games that fell off the wagon? I am NOT saying I think Civ V is going this direction, because I don't think it is. I do know that even if the bulk of the buying population doesn't complain, they'll still walk away.

No worries, I wasn't trying to have a go at you. If I sounded harsh then I apologize. I loved Civ 4 and the points that you see as weaknesses I see as strengths, you are right in that we can have different opinions so fair enough.

For myself, I hated the idea of Steam Civ 5. As the release date gets closer my resolve is weakening. I want Civ 5 but don't want to be forced into using Steam, what a problem! Ultimately it will be the "Fantasy General" style mod that gets released and forces me into buying it. Forgive me

And most game "protests" amount to nothing. The Left4Dead 2 group is my favorite one, people saying they wouldn't by that due to broken promises Valve made about the first game. That made some noise, and really amounted to little else. (Or the Modern Warfare 2 boycotters, most of which you found playing MW2 on day 1.)

The reality of the situation is that there's a vocal group that doesn't like Steam. Outside of those people, it's not much of an issue. More people will get annoyed with it over the drastic changes to the game then will over Steamworks.

My point is, a lot of the time when a company loses their customer base, when the game fails and some developer shuts its door, there is no fanfaire. There is no great outcry. It's just a failed release. So the fact that there is 1% of a population unhappy about something... well some companies could be so lucky because silent rejection is the real deadly result. Don't believe me, just search for a list of developers that shuttered their doors in the last handful of years. The fact that there are enough people that even care enough about Civ to complain about it IS a sign that there is a healthy population of players involved. You want to dismiss that, go ahead. I can't stop you. there are plenty of games that make large changes and no one even blinks because they don't give a shit, the series was dismissed awhile ago to the point where no one is following it anymore. That's more difficult to recover from than forums filled with customers expressing their concerns about upcoming releases.

One more thing, you mentioned to FPS games, games whose player base is known for a lot of things... not all of them good to begin with. (speaking as someone who plays L4D).

My response was a bit excessive. I mistook you for a civfanatics fanboy.  Apologies here also.

I was waiting for more info on Civ5 before I was going to decide whether I'd purchase it or not. The steam bs made my decision for me. No sale.

[quote who="Tridus" reply="502" id="2657992"]
And most game "protests" amount to nothing. The Left4Dead 2 group is my favorite one, people saying they wouldn't by that due to broken promises Valve made about the first game. That made some noise, and really amounted to little else. (Or the Modern Warfare 2 boycotters, most of which you found playing MW2 on day 1.) [/quote]

Fan feedback does make a difference...

 

Scaling Back BioShock 2's DRM

January 22, 2010 Elizabeth

Tweaking activation limits in GFWL and *removing* Steamworks are two entirely different things. One is easy. The other would delay the game for weeks, if not months. They'd then need to replace the Steamworks code with something else that provides the same functionality... and given that everybody hates GFWL, where do they go to get that?

"Remove Google Background" was the #7 search on Google the day the backgrounds were turned on (or #5, depending on which site you believe). That's not a couple thousand complaints, thats millions of users. Besides, that was only going to be forced on for 24 hours anyway, so all they did was end it early when they realized that you couldn't turn the stupid thing off.

That said, once they realized how unpopular it was, they did the right think by yanking it. But it's also a lot easier to yank that then to rip Steamworks out of a game.

There's no question it's cost them some sales. The issue now was if there will be some huge public backlash once the unsuspecting customer buys it and discovers Steam. But I don't think that's very likely.

(Of note, I've seen people in other communities who ONLY buy games on Steam. Not sure what's up with that.)

(Pls note my post isn't directed at you personally, just to this very good post).

Steam as a digital store is great.  Similar to Impulse or Gamersgate it gets a lot of love from people who want to buy their game digitally.  The problem though which many don't see is that Steam doesn't end there and controls your games.  You can give me posts all day long about "offline mode" all you want, but Steam is still there, in the way.  A digital store like Impulse I can buy and download the game and uninstall Impulse never to be seen again if I want.  And I own the game and can install it 10 yrs from now without Impulse.  Can't do that with Steam.

Steam is very much liked by those that play shooters.  It's very much a multiplayer platform and the common thing that people post about how much they like Steam is because "they get notified when friends want to play a game" or "they can chat with friends while they play" or whatnot.  Basically Xbox for the PC.  So if you're a kiddie (no offense, but let's be realistic here with what the audience really is) FPS gamer Steam is great.  Steam is awesome.  If I was big into multiplayer games I'd probably like Steam too.

The PROBLEM is when you start forcing Steamworks and Steam down the throats of primarily *single player* games, which the Civ franchise is (and Fallout NV which is single player *only* for crying out loud).  Steamworks offers *NOTHING* of value to a single player gamer.  Achievements?  Please.  All it does is get in the way and has many downsides which have been listed many times.  But the Steam lovers say "but it allows me to know when my friends are on so I can play COD with them".  Great, that's awesome.  But what does that do for the Civ gamer, the vast majority of which play single player and never go online.  Nothing.  And *that's* the point.

My dislike for Steam isn't hate for Valve.  I blame 2K and Firaxis for this decision to build it into Civ 5.  They are the ones to blame.

I never, ever use Steam for chat since I have Xfire, which works just as well and it automatically detects all my games, so no need to tell Steam I have a non-Steam game installed.

Oh, let's just be honest here.

Don't forget to put the crackers into the discussion. Yes, I know, it is illegal. But they exist. And this type of decision is only sweet juice for them. They will have a party with this.

The problem is, many people that disagree with this decision will go after the cracked solution, and the crackers will probably have one of the biggest bot-trojan-whatever distributions in history, all thanks to a stupid decision like this.

Let's talk reality here. And reality without the crackers, even if sad to say, is not reality at all.

Now THAT is a problem.

All FPS gamers are kiddies. Nice. I guess the legions of gamers who played Doom as a teen never grew up.

Of course you'll probably change your tune when Impulse Reactor comes out, because it aims to do the exact same things Steam does. Unfortunately, it won't be as successful, because Steam is always on, making it a much better community engine. Impulse has always been too hands off, and Reactor seems to only launch when you're playing a Reactor game.