That's not the point. The post is trying to imply that those of us who play multiplayer, regardless of how few we are, wouldn't have a problem with Steam because all the bells and whistles attached to the multiplayer portion of the game. I am here to tell you, as someone not happy about being forced to use steam AND who plays multiplayer... that's not necessarily true.

Not sure why you keep thinking I'm talking to you when I'm quoting bonscott. Obviously, you don't share his opinions and my replies to him don't apply to you.

If you want to make arguments on why Steamworks is a bad multiplayer service and is worse than Gamespy, GFWL, or in house coding, then by all means. You don't have to reply to every reply I make to bonscott, though.

I didn't think that you were talking to me persay, but you seem to think that the only people who object to Civ V being wrapped in Steamworks are people who won't use Steam and don't play Civ multiplayer. That's not necessarily true. Since you are trying to get me to talk about Steam being a bad multiplayer service you STILL don't get it. At this point, I doubt you ever will.

Let's all agree to the following table, and let's move on eh?  

Single Players:

- Like/Don't mind Steam

- Hate Steam

Multi Players:

- Like/Don't mind Steam

- Hate Steam

Please choose your category and let's move onto something else.

I'm a SP who likes Steam.  

Err nope sorry, I don't hate Steam either. If you don't like the discussion points, why even bother to post in the thread?

Steam shouldn't have an impact on the multiplayer side of this game since turn based games are least effected by lag, though when you do get a game like Codmw2 tied to a peer to peer multiplayer service with steam thats only when steam really starts to be piggish server based FPS with steam are unaffected.

unless it gets really great reviews and is praised for bring something new to civ 5 i won't buy it steam is a key factor but i will let that go if its really great though so far seeing how its hexs now no stacks i am yet to see how well it will work, but so far the unit changes seems to be good since a unit doesn't need a damn transport to cross a sea now, though not sure about how range units will be balanced now also units are not destoryed when defeated in battle not sure how fair that will be or the effect of that yet.

The DLC part is also putting me off so unless the game is really great its bye bye to its chances of me getting it.

though some how i am getting the feeling that even if its not that great that it still will out sell Elemental even though Civ 5 comes out almost a month later.

steam was basicly the first DRM for Pc.... and now turning DLC power house for pc, seems that people will just buy the smallest things for a large price.

People are stupid. I know I am.

People need to get used to more games requireing steamworks (and hopefully gamespy burning a death in hell itself) wether they like it or not. There is no choice for developers right now, and that means no choice for us. Even when reactor comes out I doubt any AAA game publisher will go that route (market share), I expect a lot of smaller stratergy game publishers to do so (kind like how Impulse works anyway).

You don't reinvent the wheel when you build a car, buy your wheels from a good wheel manufacturer. Right now there is one good wheel company, called the Steamwheel Cartel.

I've bent over and accepted steam is always going to be on checking out my computer when Im playing coop with my friend or when Im playing dirty single player. Its quite nice really... once you get comfortable with intrusion...

Is 8 "Best of E3" nominations enough?

I know Brad is optimistic, but I don't think he's crazy.  If Civ5 hits the same mark as Civ4 did then Elemental will have to sell more than 2 million units.  Possible, but I doubt it.

i guess thats why they got the elemental army thing going to spread the word about elemental, still elemental will the most modern up to date fantasy 4x rpg tbs around for ages, wonder if there will be a fall from heaven mod for Civ5 but even fall from heaven 2 isn't as in depth as elemental is going to be though i do hope Civ 5 is great i hope elemental is better, though steamworks is a drawback i would rather have DRM and not the steam kind and Ubisoft has made the most evil DRM this far with needing to be online all the time even for singleplayer and if you lose connection the game pauses.

mainly don't want Civ 5 to cause people to overlook or shun elemental, i do have a fear of Civ 5 causeing elemental to not sell as much as it could but what really is the main factor is how well they are both reviewed.

at least there are not isane amounts of Civ Zealots if everyone was crazy about civ 5 as much as the ipad or iwatever then there would be an issue

at least elemental is only $50 civ 5 is like $80

I am pretty sure Spore and Black and White and a number of other games received some E3 awards that weren't exactly as good as a lot of people were hoping. I am still disappointed about Spore myself. Civ V, well I am fairly confident they won't let the game become shallow eye candy.

Is that some international pricing thing?

Elemental - $49.95 USD

Civilization 5 - $49.99 USD

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=365614&page=4

As you can see many heavy steam users are complaining about their games having crashes and problems related to steam. A friend of mine can't get her mic to work on TF2 and tech support has no idea what the problem is even though the mic works fine on non-steam products. She complains about Steam really too much as I don't care that much:)

Personally, I was going to pre-order and as a long standing fanatic about civ I'm going to wait awhile to see what the consensus is. If there are no gameplay problems and no steam related crashes then I'll consider it. Overall I'm pissed at 2k and saddened that Sid would allow this travesty of forced Steam. I don't play multiplayer except LAN with friends so I have no reason to play via the internet mainly because I don't want any connection to any gaming community unless I'm pretty damn certain the group is quality. Left4Dead was great until it got popular and the trolls and kids got on. It would depress me to play a civ game and be forced to read leet speak or listen to the babble of idiot preteens and teenagers.

its 80 for me through steam.... now i guess i am going to ignore it even more.

My interests as a game player are best served by a fun, bug free game. A game using Steamworks for connectivity has a pretty good chance of working, so that's not a bad thing for me. If they go their own way and it goes wrong? Well... it was several days after release before I could play Demigod online at all, and a couple of weeks before I could play it online without Hamachi.

There's no way to sugar coat that fiasco (Stardock put a herculean effort into fixing it, but that doesn't change the mess it started out as). Online connectivity is hard. A proven working system lets them spend more development time on gameplay and less on the intricies of connecting to other players. That's in the player's interest as well as 2k's.

The game almost certainly has a budget, along with it's set release date. Any time gained in one area (Steamworks) is time/budget spent on something else. Even Brad commented on the production values, it doesn't look like 2k is trying to cut corners here.

I can't see how Steam could be to blame for a microphone problem, that sounds more like an old fashioned game bug. Possibly to do with the middleware audio solution they used (World of Warcraft had all kinds of sound issues when they upgraded to a newer version of Fmod  in order to add voice support and it took months to sort it all out again).

As for the other stuff... I'm really sick of people bashing teenagers and preteens on these forums. The majority of online gamers are adults. The majority of online gaming jerks are adults. It's been that way for quite a while. Some of you people are the online equivalent of the old man with the shotgun yelilng "get of my lawn!"

It's sad.