That doesn't mean you can play Civ5 WITHOUT having the Steam client running

I'm not arguing the perspective of 2K, Firaxis or Civilization as a series.  Your original comment implied you wouldn't participate with Civ5 due to the deal struck between Valve and 2K to use Steamworks.  From a purely business point of view I can totally understand that you would not want to favour Impules's direct competitor.  That I totally understand.

I was arguing the point that if you really are dropping Civ5 because of the inclusion Steamworks then that is a little hypocritical due to the requirement of Impulse for Elemental (as specified on the product page).  Like Civ5, Elemental will be available through brick 'n mortar, Amazon and other locations (I'm assuming) yet to participate in the community and receive patch updates, an Impulse account and installation will be required.  How is this different to Civ5?  It's NOT.

As mentioned in my previous post too, it's been confirmed that Steam doesn't need an active connection to run Civ5, it can be run totally offline and disconnected.  Same as Elemental.  Steam will publish community updates and patches to Civ5.  Same as Elemental.  Personally I don't understand (except from a purely business competitor perspective) how you can refuse Civ5 when you're doing the same thing with Elemental on Impulse.

I use Steam because of their catalog.  I also purchase a LOT of Indie games off Steam to help support Indie developers.  It's unfortunate that Impulse doesn't have the same depth and strength of options for me.  I also use Steam because 9 times out of 10 I can get the games for almost 50% of the price of brick 'n mortar.  I live in Australia where new releases cost me $100, whereas on Steam they are usually $50-60.

As a consumer I have these options.  As a developer using the same "locked-down" option to Impulse DRM with Stardock games as 2K has done with Civ5 to Steam, I'm sure you can understand why I believe it's a little hypocritical to accuse 2K of selling out when you do the same thing.  

Sorry, just my opinion.  

 

@ Frogboy

Now time to get the rights,and continue the MoO franchise.And don't forget about the sequel of Alpha Centauri.

Or better yet, make your own stone-age-to-space-age TBS.  Global Civilizations!

I'm sorry Brad, but you are wrong on this one. On March 6th 2008, Steam sold Two Worlds 75% off. On March 28th 2008 Prey was discounted 75%. In May 2008 Shadowgrounds: Survivor was 75% off. Source: http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=720271

According to Wikipedia, Impulse has been released on June 17th 2008. So the numbers just don't add up. If i'm wrong, please tell me how

 

In an recent interview you said publishers actually dislike Steamworks and, according to you, tell their developers to not use it anymore. Source: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/acting-on-impulse-interview

Now you are worrying about Steam becoming a closed standard on PC. What has changed in the last two weeks? If your statement in the GI.biz interview was true, there is nothing to worry about, isn't it?

I think this just marketing crap. Show me a PC game, and I will show you a game that NEEDS a patch. Until the publishers/developers actually release games that function properly out of the box, requiring Impulse to update the game is just as invasive as Steam. I can show you thousands of games that were pretty much complete garbage without their first patch, including a Stardock title.

Having said that, it's realy unfortunate that Valve keeps grabbing exclusives like this. It narrows the playing field, and a narrow playing field is bad for gamers. I've used Steam as a bargain sale store, to pick up titles I've passed over before and to pick up Valve's titles. I really don't want to feel forced to use their store. I don't take kindly to companies forcing me to do anything, and unlike with Impulse, when the steam servers take a nose dive, access to your games go with it. Since Impulse isnt' required to run to play (after the forced use for updates of course) at least you don't have to worry about that.

Oh wells, won't be the first of long running series I pass on.

Actually, it's quite different.  Stardock is using it's own service, Impulse Reactor, and is intertwining Elemental and Impulse and Impulse Reactor together at their descretion.  Now, let's say you make a game and want to use Impulse Reactor as well to gain access to all the features.  You can, for free, and you can then host it on any other Digitial Distribution platform you want, including Steam, without requiring Impulse or an Impulse Account.  People who buy the game via Impulse can have it updated via Impulse and people who buy the game over Steam can update the game over Steam without needing Impulse.  It doesn't force anyone to do anything.  Now, let's say you want to use Steamworks instead.  You can, provided Valve get a slice of your profits and your game is locked to Steam.  If you buy it over Impulse, they need to download and install Steam and get a Steam Account and then download the game through Steam before they can even run their game.
A company intertwining their own games with their own services makes sense.  I'd have a lot less faith in Impulse, for example, if their own Development company weren't using it's feature set.  A company forcing everyone else in the industry to use their service makes sense for that company, though not for anyone else, including the customer.


I also live in Australia, and the highest profile titles on Steam are currently running around US$69-79.00 mark, which on a good day with exchange rates, equates to around AU$80-95.00.  However, the retail stores have, for example, Modern Warfare 2 for AU$49.95 (K-Mart, I believe).  Even at the so-called massive sales on Steam, where you'll see 25-50% knocked off a title, the prices are inflated considering the cost of physically producing the box, discs, manual, shipping, placement, etc.



Let me see if I understand you.  Brad Wardell, CEO of Stardock and owner of Impulse, provided incorrect information on his own product and company?  The third part site, Archive.org, is also wrong? Do you re-read your posts before you click 'Post'?


I don't understand the point of this? 
Brad advised that his contacts don't like Steamworks.  Brad then advised that in a hypothetical situation where Steamworks is allowed to continue unabaided ("it's logical conclusion") which it won't do due to services like Impulse Reactor being made available soon (hence the situation being hypothetical and thus the useage of the term "its logical conclusion"), that Steam would create a console-style environment where the platform as a whole passes through the company which owns the platform which in this hypothetical situation would be Valve due to the locked in nature of the Steamworks DRM, thus creating his point.
What's your point?

 

What hypocracy in this thread.

Sony and Microsoft have been doing this to each other with their consoles for a long time, it's competition, Stardock need to step up.  If they aren't catering to Developers/Publishers as well as Valve then they need to improve.

 

 

What?  Steam takes away a lot of the headaches of PC game development, as you well know.  That's exactly what Steamworks is, and Steam itself.  It's a form of DRM (hear the crowds gasp) that most seem to accept so win for the Developer win for the consumer (Can I expect cheaper games because they sell more?).  Plus it gives them great multiplayer functionality that would take tons of money to produce so more money spent on game development or cheaper games.

With options such as Steam and competitors bringing development more in line with consoles why wouldn't people want to develop for PC?

I understand from a business perspective your position, you don't want to support the competitor, but don't dress this up as Steam being evil or bad for PC gamers, they are just selling themselves better than you and it's something you need to address.

 

I keep hearing this argument.  So, you're big gripe with Steam is that is has to be running, but you don't mind Impulse because the ONLY difference is that Steam has to be running.  Other people don't mind that, but they refuse to do it because they can't be bothered to set Steam to offline mode.  This is the stupidest thing ever.  Sure it's your choice, but it doesn't mean your rationale is in any way intelligent.  

In my country ( Hungary ) lots of games are cheaper in retail,than on Steam.

 

If Wikipedia (also a 3rd party site) is correct about the origin date of the Impulse client, then yes, Brad Wardell is wrong.  All the information Guest posted is evidenced with links stating exactly what he stated whereas Brad provided only a reference to a search engine's general site.

Although I'm sure it's impossible for a CEO to be wrong... never happens.. ever.. just assume they are always correct and infallible.  Works great in the banking business.

 

Also, I'm reallly getting frustrated with these forums.  I keep trying to post, but it's literally taken an hour and a half to get 3 posts up.  "Forums go Boom" x100 on Chrome, Firefox, and Internet Explorer.

 

"The Steam happy people" seems to miss the point of the "The Steam not so happy people"

The problem is not that it is on Steam, its that it is Steam only. You have to install the Steam software even if you buy it at Gamestop. This is what many have a problem with. Many players play single player only and dont want the Steam functionality.

The "Steam only" thing also raises the question of Steam getting too much market power. When huge games like CIV V comes on one platform only, that creates an uncomfortable feeling for many.

Saying that "I am happy with Steam and there is no problem" doesnt address the concerns that many people have over this development.

You say that like it's a minor difference. It's not.

I don't like the "every game need achievements" crap,and never used the ingame community feature.

 

If Wikipedia (also a 3rd party site) is correct about the origin date of the Impulse client, then yes, Brad Wardell is wrong.  All the information Guest posted is evidenced with links stating exactly what he stated whereas Brad provided only a reference to a search engine's general site.

Although I'm sure it's impossible for a CEO to be wrong... never happens.. ever.. just assume they are always correct and infallible.  Works great in the banking business.

 

Also, I'm reallly getting frustrated with these forums.  I keep trying to post, but it's literally taken an hour and a half to get 3 posts up.  "Forums go Boom" x100 on Chrome, Firefox, and Internet Explorer.