Talk about hyperbole, that comment of yours is a classic one. This forum has been pretty solidly constructive in general; far better than any I have seen under such release conditions. Are you actually silly enough to say that if one does not like EWOM then one is 4x hater?? That there is serious flamethrower material. Seriously go spew that kind of nonsense somewhere else. Just because someone has an opinion about something and it happens to conflict with your own idolizing, does not make them a hater or not a fan of the genre. 

RAT

No, he's right, there has been some plain flaming towards Stardock going on, but for the most part the community realizes that the game has a few bugs,and are simply trying to give constructive criticism.

But you have an option to get your money back, they aren't saying you can't...stardock is great in that they give refunds....so if you can't afford the 50 dollars then get a refund.

???

You truly baffle me Charon.

I'm am a hardcore devoté of the fantasy TBS genre specifically and 4x games in general.  I'd be willing to be that many of the more prolific posters this week (especially those with long lists on bug reports and constructive comments) are also similarly devoted.

How about Stardock completely dropping the ball insofar as their own Gamers Bill of Rights (specifically points 2 and 5) by releasing a half-baked game full of bugs (some of which have been squashed)?  And at best a small indie studio level of gameplay depth (bad AI, horrid diplomacy, screwy and weak magic, bland carbon copy units, etc.) yet charging a AAA game price?

Are you claiming that it's *MY FAULT* that I don't like buggy games that are missing many of the promises the developing company offered to us, the buying public?

Worse, are you saying (as you have before) that because Stardock isn't Blizzard that they get an automatic pass?  This kind of nonsense has been bandied about quite a bit by the small cadre of angry fanboys this week and it's not sitting well with me.  Using your logic, I should accept absolute crap from Spiderweb Software since their games are far cheaper...  but they pump out old sk00l, hardcore RPGs that are full of personality and flavor.  On the first release.

You really need to get some perspective.  The name calling and insults from the small group of very vocal apologists isn't helping one iota.  Telling us that we just don't get the game, are obviously not fans of TBS or 4x and the like is a great way to make sure that anything you say is ignored out of hand by all but the few.

Part of the problem here was that the beta testers kindof lied in terms of how things were going. There were way too many 'yes men'. There was almost no beta to speak of, and yet most beta testors still seemed to expect greatness. Here's Denryu's poll from the end of beta. Most people seemed to assume the game would be ready.  

https://forums.elementalgame.com/390463/page/1/#2709273

The thing is, I have no idea on what they could have based that opinion. For 6 months the beta was unplayable and had zero content in any case. Right at the end with beta 4 there was something you could actually play, but before we could even discuss it, plans were already in force for an August release.

I guess people kinda fell in love with Elemental's potential, and were careless of the fact that we hadn't really seen any evidence of it living up. I'm sure there were those who just had faith because of Stardock's previous games.

The lesson here is to be extremely wary of the flatterers. Their reputations are not at stake after all.

Which is why you need beta testers willing to not make apologies and report everything wrong even if it seems obvious.  Which, in turn, is a lot harder than it sounds.  Hard on both the giving and receiving ends.

That's why it bothers me, deeply, when people post that the game is fine and/or that Stardock will surely fix everything.  The developers really do need to know when features doesn't work and products aren't acceptable.  No, pure flaming doesn't help - but neither does blind faith.  Stardock just proved, with Elemental's release, that we cannot trust them with blind faith.

Nor would I care about the entire issue if the core game, the core idea, was crap.  Because it isn't.  The core is awesome.  It's just plain not functioning yet, even when you avoid the crashes and performance issues.

No, you can dislike anything you want.  I'm simply saying that I like the game very much.  Even in it's imperfect state.  I probably would like it less if I was having all the trouble some folks seem to, but apparently I lucked out.

yeah, you started off saying that, but concluded with:

Equating those that didn't like Elemental (for whatever reason) to people that are not "big fans" of 4X games.

While you're saying this, realise that the people who post on these forums are an interesting slice of Elemental's potential customer base - a disproportionate amount of posters will have preordered, a disproportionate amount of posters will have bought this game and lastly a disproportionate amount of posters have followed this game for some time. In other words, as far as slanting the overall impression towards the positive, this poster base is probably as far as you're going to get.

If you perceive this board as hostile to the game, imagine what the broader gaming populace has to say.

I equate a Elemental to an indie film, a little rough around the edges, but with an undeniable charm.  Unfortunately, only a small minority appreciate something like that.  The general movie going public just wants to be spoon-fed the next Michael Bay Transformer movie.

So you think Elemental falls into the category of 'high art'?

The clown told me to go play SC2 in another thread. I basically ignore everything he has to say at this point.

Hey Charon, how's that foot tasting?

Every time you try to try to defend your love of Elemental, it ends up coming off in the most offensively elitist way possible.

• We're stupid.
• We don't like 4x.
• We don't understand the game.
• We want to be spoon fed some big studio dreck instead of an arthouse game.
• We might as well go play SC2.

Do you really think so little of the legitimate complaints about this half-assed game?

I *LOVE* indie games, I *LOVE* TBS games and I *LOVE* fantasy games.  The combination of all 3 should send me into nerd paroxysms, but Elemental has been a huge letdown.  Potential yes, but miserable delivery.

So before you want to start smacking all of us around with your broad brush of elitism, think for a moment...  just because I don't share your unbridled love for Elemental, I'm not a lesser person.  My voice still deserves to be heard here.  And my desire for Stardock to FIX the game isn't somehow invalid.

Beta wasn't really as bad as you think, but once it became obvious that it wouldn't be ready for release people started saying it. Then you started seeing Brad respond with stuff like "it'll be fine, we've heard all this before, you don't know anything about making games."

The release date got locked in, and then they REALLY didn't want to hear it. Is this when the forum gets to collectively say we told you so?

Maybe he was just too invested in it as "his baby" to see what someone from outside could see, I don't know. The rest of the dev team has handled themselves in exemplary fashion since release, and at this point that matters more then how the beta schedule was botched by the lack of a gameplay beta.

No, you haven't lucked out. You just haven't noticed or don't care about all the mechanics in the game which are not working at all or properly and the fact that there is very little balance between the paths and few meaningful choices to make in the game.

My issue isn't with the crash bugs and it sounds like many people agree with me. The problem is the lack of a proper balanced strategy game which interesting choices and various equally valid paths. I actually think the engine is pretty good, the game is the problem.