The problem for us is that all our developers that make the kinds of things that steamworks does now work at Gamestop.

We don't have the capability anymore to do the kind of statistical tracking and leader boards and achievements and other stuff like that (i.e. like in Demigod). So if anything, I would expect more use of Steamworks going forward.

Great reference. I'm stealing that!

Indeed. A choice, or at least the option to offer a choice of retailers, is always good. Steam maybe the best store now, but someday there will be a serious attempt to challenge their market. Steamworks is an absolutely brilliant way of ensuring any start up will have a huge problem breaking their monopoly, for every game using steamworks now is one game a competitor can not sell. And in the long run that will hurt everyone.

So when will we be getting all that for Rebellion, exactly, if that's such an important reason for using it.

I'd rather just not have the statistics, leader boards, and cheevos than be forced to use Steam.   Am I the exception or the rule?

I'd also rather pay a little extra just to not have a game on Steam, or the option to download from Steam and SDC.   This is an option I really think you guys should do for all your future games- at the very minimum as an experiment for your next game.

I know it sounds like you've already made up your mind, but I'd like for you guys to at least give us folks who don't trust Valve an alternative.

How much more would you charge for the ideas I'm suggesting?

I would pay extra not to use Steam - I'd much rather have the option to have a good offline SDC game, then have to scrub another game off my list.  And I would be very disappointed if any primarily Single Player Elemental game was made Steam only.

I agree.

Ok, I am not too upset with this right now.

First, Compared to say the blizzard EULA that pretty much steals the copyright of your thoughts related to the game the steam EULA seems pretty good. Any US court would rule that arbitration for a class action meriting lawsuit is not due process of law. Despite the contractual agreement saying that arbitration must be used or a small claims court, due process is a constitutional right and would have to be met by whatever settlement is reached. It is a rather elastic stipulation in article 12.

Second Steam agreed to pay legal fees if you are seeking fewer that 10K.

Thirdly have there been any suits that need to amount to 10K or more in settlement, ever? Steam does microtransactions of only up 500 bucks. Even then I fail to see how valve would be responsible for any major issues.

Fourthly customer service should be able to resolve most issues without the need to go to court.

Fifthly I don't recall seeing anything that would protect valve from being responsible for damages; its not an agreement to not sue its an agreement to do it by cheaper ways.

Sixthly courts are the last way I would try to do these things. They are expensive, slow, and fickle. Most arbitrators/ombudsmen I have had to deal with in america are retired judges and the like. They will be just. I want a citation on those statistics.

Overall I am fine with the change as is. It seems to be fair to the user. Legally we are entitled to due process and if arbitration would not adequately allow for damages etc to be visited a court would likely rule in favor of the claimant. Right now this makes me feel like valve is trying to be fair and not self-protective. I can understand your unease at loosing legal rights but that is life and society. You have to give up a little to live with other people. Other eulas I have seen are horrifying. Just read the starcraft 2 one that makes you perform litigation in the LA area on their terms; it probably wouldn't be found constitutional but somebody would have to challenge it. As a bit of an example I will just mention water rights. The US is mostly in droubt this year with 1-46% of average annual precipitation in afflicted areas. Farmers and people have water rights because there are cities like LA downstream. Just because the river crosses your property doesn't mean you need all of it. In fact it helps you to let some go so that in return CA grows your veggies. Its natural to be afraid of loosing something, but videogames are entertainment and it honestly  should not be a big deal. Its not like they are stripping your rights pertaining to any other legal relations.

The courts normally side with reason, and while these stats are discouraging, legislation and/or common law could easily patch these issues.

harpo

Indeed, a non-Steam option is definitely welcome. I was perfectly happy with the way Sins worked before, but I hardly even want Rebellion now that Steam is involved. I don't want or need all of the Steam features, because virtually all of them can be done without needing third party software. THQ already forced me into using Steam for Supreme Commander Gold, if I ever want to reinstall it, without my knowledge, after I bought a non-Steam version.

You're the exception. I choose games on Steam over other sources because of their achievements (Puzzle Quest II for example).

I also like their other features and it's so convinient to have everyting in one package. Like I can get a screenshot the oldfashioned way of "pressing printscreen --> alt+tab --> Start --> type paint --> ctrl + v --> save"

OR

I press ' (which I bound to "take Steam screenshot) and later add some text and upload it for everyone (or Steam friends or noone) to see.

One more reason to insert all games I have into Steam.

I have the SAME issues regarding sublimated ICE as zeta for the SAME reasons

harpo

If you're black, you got to look at America a little bit different. You got to look at America like the uncle who paid for you to go to college, but who molested you.

*Chris Rock

Yeah, That's Steam in a fucking nut shell for gamers.  They might give us great shit, but we hate ourselves afterwards for letting them into our computer and occasionally do lan parties where we cry about it.  Steam is the pedo van with the best suckers.  RUN!

so true semaz, so true, BUT I do my BEST to KILL the bastards if they attempt anything with ME.

harpo

I want an alternative to Steam because it could easily go bad for consumers very quickly.  And any game (particularly primary single player) that is reliant on a web-site service to be played at all is at the mercy of whether that web-site continues to operate in the same way or is sold to less "discerning" owners.

... there's always the ms store from win8+