Go ahead, attack willy nilly anyone that opposes your viewpoint. It makes you both real intelligent. I am actually one of the people in this thread who uses Steam and Impulse, and I have gripes about both of them. He wants one browser, one OS, one digi storefront. That viewpoint is very narrow-minded.

Console wars is not a valid viewpoint because this idea that suddenly PC gaming will die and jump to consoles only has been brought up year after year after year after year after year and still hasn't happened. Is Steam took a nose dive tomorrow, PC gaming isn't going to end as we know it. To a couple of over zealous steam users, I am sure it would feel that way.

You're need to result to insults, doesn't strengthen your viewpoints either. Do keep going though.

This thread is turning into a flame war. You lads are overracting the situation imo. If you are a Civ fanatic, buy the game...Steam or not. If I would be a big Civ fan, I would buy it...but I am not a big fan of the game actually.

That's my entire point. Steam already has a choke hold on PC digital distribution and NOTHING BAD HAS HAPPENED. Even if, as some people think, Steam engulfs all PC digital sales (and we ignore retail PC game sales...), gamers will still have the console gaming market.

Developers love having only one platform to publish to. The only reason to publish to multiple platforms is because it makes them more money. Unfortunately, Impulse, D2D and others are such small platforms that a few are now choosing Steam as the only PC platform they develop for, because that's where the profit is.

Keep in mind, you're the only person to insult anyone in this thread first by questioning my age. I invite you to invite some moderators into this thread to see who started insulting who.

Direct from Elemental product pages off Stardock's website (both LE and Std edition):

I'm sure there's also a serial number that I'll have to register.  Hmm...... what does it register through?  Oh yeah, Impulse.

I can play multiplayer on Stardock's servers?  Cool where do I signup?  Oh yeah, Impulse.

Hey I'm a modder too, where do I upload mods to?  You mean Impulse?  (That's explained in the Elemental for Dummies thread)

Seems pretty clear to me.

@DeCypher.  Steam clearly does not have a chokehold on the PC digital distribution market. If it did, everyone would have to put their titles on it to be commercially viable.

According to Valve, they have 25 million accounts.  That's about the number of *consumer* PCs that Dell ships each year. It's about the amount of unique visitors Gamespot.com gets per day. 

Steam has a huge lead in digital distribution and is likely to lead for the foreseable future, perhaps the indefinite future. But describing digital distribution is a done deal is as silly as saying that MySpace.com has a permanent dominance for social networking.

You will know the day that Steam has a choke hold on the market - when they start making requirements on software to be carried on Steam (i.e. must use Steamworks for instance). 

I can fully appreciate that Brad.  Good luck with Elemental.  

Yet again, the difference is that you can play your game to hearts delight right out of the box without ever touching Impulse. You can't do that with Steam.

EDIT: Yes, if you want extras such as updates you need to download Impulse. But for multiplayer, just create an account, you don't need Impulse. Unlocking games doesn't require registration, only CD key, which doesn't need Impulse.

Here's the primary problem I have with your argument. You are talking about a big fish in a swimming hole in an market that is an ocean. Steam has what... 70% of maybe 20% of the market. Steam doesn't even touch the B&M sales. Walmart gobbles up Amazon and Steam combined last I checked. You can't just ignore retail market for the sake of argument. The majority games are still being purchased physical disc. All it will take is one storefront, one idea that is more appealing to those consumers of physical discs to hop over Steam and gain the lead. Steam is not that appealing to people who like discs. It just isn't and neither impulse. Sure, they're relatively new but they're not so new that gamers are unaware of the  choice.

At this point in time, a lot of consumers, the majority, still prefer actual discs. I happen to be one of those people. I will use digi stores at discounts, but Steam isn't ideal for me. My mentality, at the moment, is the majority. That can change, I know that. But right now Steam is claiming 1st place in a race that isn't even in the finales. Steam is not in this perfect position Steam supporters think they are in. Are they a good position, yes. Perfect, too big to fail, game over position... no.

As to your last point, we don't have moderators on these forums wagging fingers at people like children. Age is not an insult, it's a fact. There are ton of people on this forum that happen to be a lot older than I am. Heh, i am not even that old, but I am old enough to remember Microsoft as the big gorilla that bullied around the industry. They're not some saint company. It boggles the mind that some people would want Steam to pick up their play book and run with it.

Brad, you are entirely correct. Chokehold was a poorly chosen word. But it is still indeed the current number one digital distributor.

My very absolute, main point is this: Even if it were to dominate the digital market (which I think it already kind of is, and others are free to disagree, and do, haha), there are factors such as the brick and mortar stores selling PC games, and console games. If Valve were to abuse its power in any blatant way, consumers and developers could easily move to one of those other channels. Thus, Valve will still be forced to compete, though perhaps at the expense of other, smaller digital distributors.

The myspace comparison is actually an apt one, and a great counterpoint to my Windows comparison, though with one glaring omission: people have invested hundreds of dollars into a Steam account. I guess we will have to see where everything is in a few years.

Everything have an end. The dinosaurs ( MS and Steam ) will die out soon. The evolution continues.

I'm amazed that so many people have intermittent internet connections.  I have cable internet, and it's on 99% of the time - and when there are severe storms that cause the internet to go out.. guess what?  I'm not getting on my computer to play a game in offline mode, I'm turning off and unplugging what I need to to make sure nothing gets fried.

I've had Steam since HalfLife 2, and am amazed at the level of ignorance in this thread!  "Oh yeah, if only Steam has the game, gamers will get screwed because there will be no competition!"  - Yeah, that's why I can currently purchase Civilization 4 Complete for 75% off ($10USD), why I'm presented with numerous sales on a "specials" page, and why I'm given the opportunity to test current games via a "free weekend" deal.  Also, I can easily visit specific game forums and get an idea of what consumers think of a game before I purchase it, consistently.  

There are moments in a persons life where taking a stand against something is bold and admirable...people who take a stand against having to launch a program before they launch their game are missing the point, in my opinion. 

I wonder if there's an alternate universe where Civ5 is being sold in a nice big box, with a nice big manual, and the special edition has a little statue of the hanging gardens, and i can play it multiplayer over my lan with just one disk, and the phantom menace was good.

I want to live there.

[quote who="KickACrip" reply="146" id="2613694"]

I've had Steam since HalfLife 2, and am amazed at the level of ignorance in this thread!  "Oh yeah, if only Steam has the game, gamers will get screwed because there will be no competition!"  - Yeah, that's why I can currently purchase Civilization 4 Complete for 75% off ($10USD), why I'm presented with numerous sales on a "specials" page, and why I'm given the opportunity to test current games via a "free weekend" deal.  Also, I can easily visit specific game forums and get an idea of what consumers think of a game before I purchase it, consistently.  


[/quote]

Your Civ IV argument is a pretty poor choice. Let me tell you why.  First, Civ IV complete has no DRM. You can buy the physical disc and not be bothered with the disc again. This means the Steam version is almost inferior in that it adds DRM. I say almost becaause depending on where you purchase it, you may or may not have the ability to download it again at will. Civ IV is old, it's been out awhile now. It's not like Steam takes a brand new game on release day and sells it for 10 dollars. Civ IV can be purchased on sale from D2D for 9.95. Civ IV has so many choices as to where you can purchase it and still enjoy the same benefit it is actually counter intuitive to your argument.

No one here is saying Steam is crap. No one says these little benefits you are talking about is bad.

Not having a choice, always bad, always bad for the consumer even if the consumer thinks otherwise for awhile. It's not a new tactic to move into an area, undersell your competitors, try to drive them out of business so you can what exactly... oh right, when they are gone, you get to control prices again, and they will go up.

Except for the one disk thing (and the phantom menace thing), the others might still happen. I'm actually holding out to see if they announce a nice boxed copy (you still have to install Steam, though).

Yep, the retail copy will also use Steam of course. The pirates won again?