Well I'm not buying Civ V if it means I have to add another digital distribution program to my PC.  I can only just about tolerate Impulse and its refusal to play ball with a limited user account (Windows XP).  I keep it around so that if something goes wrong with my Stardock software, I can re-download and re-install it without any hassle.

I do not want three different programs for updating and downloading different games and if that means I have to go to retail and pick up a boxed game because it isn't available to download on my preferred (read: tolerated) client, that's what I'm going to do.

well said

Are people here really that ignorant about Steam. You can just go into your game folder and launch it via the startup .exe and never have to even start Steam. this is one-time only internet activation for DRM. Ubisoft is the one producing games you have to be online all the time to play, settlers 7, Silent hunter 5, and all other current and future Ubisoft titles you have to be online all the time to play. I have officially boycitted all ubisoft games.

Steam gives you

no need for cd key

install when you like without disks

run when you like without disks

crazy sales events where I can buy game for a fraction of their cost

an truly green option for buying games as well as saving me the headache and gas money of driving to a store.

I also have quite a few games on Impulse. Competition is always a good thing and I dont mind running two clients. Honestly the friends list should be an open standard so you can transfer it around between providers but aside from that I don't have ny problems with multiple game download services. All the Steam hate just doesn't make any sense and the majority of times I see it it comes from a place of ignorance.

FYI with the new client look in the upper right of your game library and you'll see "view" and some icons allows you to change your games display views to list or grid along with a size enhancer.

"Are people here really that ignorant about Steam. You can just go into your game folder and launch it via the startup .exe and never have to even start Steam. this is one-time only internet activation for DRM."

How many games on steam can you do that with? X-Com: UFO - Enemy Unkown (my name) does but anything from THIS decade? lol

Anyway you missed ALL of the points about the argument, that seems to be a common pattern in this thread.

Yes steam is goodzors!! That is not in question.

no, your wrong, I like it tight.

(make a silly correction, get a silly reply)

Anyway, I agree with Nick.

your = something that belongs to you. Your house, your statement, your car.

you're = you are

your wrong = the wrong which you have committed.

you're wrong = you are wrong (which is what you should have said)

Aye. A knae hae to spell, noo gat ta fook oot mate!

Does this work like that for games that are using STEAMWORKS? Can STEAMWORKS work without any STEAM client launched by any means (even by a startup.exe)?

List of games that you have tried personally that it's worked with.

I haven't found a single one. Of currently installed, Just Cause 2, Operation Flashpoint 2, and X3 Terran Conflict do not support this.

If what you say is true, it is the exception- not the rule.

No.  Games that use Steamworks require the Steam store/DRM client to be running. This is why some people object to it.

If EA or UbiSoft or Microsft did the same thing, there'd be riots (and have been in similar scenarios).  If in order to run say Fallout 3, you had to first load up a program called say AntiPiracy Checker which included a store and that you had to create a store account in order to play I think it's safe to say that a lot of people would be very upset.

The only thing really softens it is that there are so many fans of Steam.

The only Steam game I know that does support this is Mount and Blade series, and that's only if you download the game directly from them, and use your CD key.  Hence, the only non-Valve game I bought from Steam.

Paradox games have had a number of problems with Steam also.  Impulse seems to work fine with Paradox games.

Thanks.

I thought about posting it at civfanatics, but I already picked up 2 warnings over there for a post ranting about steam and the steam sales spam.   I figured I'd better quit before they barred me from the site (I still find it useful for the "other games" and the older civs mod sections). But that now makes 2 reasons why I'll be passing on civ5.

1) because of the steam requirement - I don't want their software on my computer nor do I want to help them in their monopoly quest.

2) because of the shoddy way t2/firaxis treats their customers who have problems with their products. When civ4 came out, it had a mess of problems and t2/firaxis took their merry time fixing them. The way people with problems were treated by t2/firaxis and their affiliated civfanatics site was abominable. Anyone with a problem was harassed and insulted  and the site did nothing to stop it. Even encouraged that treatment. I see the same rubbish going on over there now.That's not how one treats a customer. I didn't much care for the changes in civ4 from civ3 , so had no interest in buying it new. But I probably would have picked up once it hit the bargain bin. Because of the treatment of customers by civfnatics, I decided why give these people my business and never got a copy for that reason. I see the same rubbish developing over civ5, so even if it didn't require a 3rd party to run, and even if I the game specs were really enticing, I still wouldn't pick up the game because of the way they, and their affiliates, treat their customers.

Tasunke, if you want me to post it, I will.

'You can lead a horse/person to water/knowledge but not make them drink/think'

I've seen a number of pro-steamers arguing against those who want the choice of steam/nosteam.  I haven't seen anyone argue that steam shouldn't be an option for the pro-steamers.  Has there, and I missed it?

If not, that's interesting...

Many of the anti-Steamers have said they're willing to pay extra money or lose features to have it not on Steam.  That should tell you something.

I am pretty sure the same people would be extremely upset if they had to use Impulse and not Steam. It's just too easy to agree with forcing others to do something you chose to do anyway to the extent that you forget that you had a choice initially.