It's quite simply because you MUST use Steam.  There is no other option.  There are many other solutions that allow choice of client, or even no client at all.

Those who don't want steam are likewise entitled to that same consideration.  That you don't understand their opinion is irrelevant. 

It's a *single player game*.  What "community" is needed?  Nothing.  So don't make me install junk that I and the vast majority of Civ players, which are single player, do not want or need.

Include Steamworks as an option for those that want it.  Awesome.  But don't *force* us to install junk we don't need.

Here is the difference....all you twitchy FPS guys love and want those features.  But that is not the core audience that plays Civ games.  Not even close.  Core Civ players are typically older and just play single player.  So don't force FPS style "community" features on a game that won't need or use it.

Firaxis run a survey on their website a couple years ago focused on this.  They found that the majority of players didn't know that a fan community and mods existed for Civ4, and would've checked it out if they had've known.

In one respect the addition of community features is a response to this, which IMO is a good thing showing the developer is listening to fans of the game and adjusting.  The implementation may not be the best solution, but at least give them credit for responding.  

. . .Wow.

So they sell it only over Steam. It's not like this sort of thing hasn't happened before. It's like the new Ubisoft DRM all over again.

If you don't like Steam, fine. Congratulations. I'm happy for you.

You can't install it, and leave it off 23/6 because you aren't playing the game at the time? Is this just elitism? Is this "OH NOEZ! TEH GUVURNMUNT IS STEALING MAH INFOEZ!"? What's the big problem with Steam? You have Impulse don't you? (No, I'm not going to read 12 pages.)

Brad, I'm rather disappointed in you. Why aren't you getting it? Because it's on Steam? A competing distribution platform? That's horsehockey and you know it.

I'm rather disappointed in the lot of you, skimming this thread.

Edits: That was a bit vehement, but I'm leaving it there unedited, because I still mean all of it.

So. Steam.

- Largest DDP in the known world. (Martians probably have a bigger one.)

- Has integrated support for the game you are playing, thousands (? I may be exaggerating here) of others and a large stable of features to 'enhance' your gaming experience.

- Must be running to run your game.

- Can be rather clunky and a system hog

Now, the first isn't a negative or a benefit. It just is.

The second, some of you seem to be contesting, is a negative. This is the part I don't get. Install it, never turn it on except for Civ 5. Be anti-social, don't use the friends function and etc etc etc. It's not taking up CPU, or leeching credit card info, or murdering small children if it's on your system.

The third I can understand being problematic, and yes, Impulse is magnificent for having this problem solved. It isn't the end of the world. It doesn't matter that it's a single-player game. Stop saying that. That has no impact on the thing. It's part of the platform.

The fourth. . .I've learned to live with it, but it is a bit of a pain at times.

All in all, I fail to see the hullabaluu. You are adults, yes? Act like it, deal with the mud flung in your face and grin. Bear it. Use the platform despite it's problems. Enjoy the game you've been looking forward to for years.

Unfortunately there is a problem with the service. Empire: Total War was the first game I got that required steam to run, and thus the first time I put steam on my PC. It was quite a horrible experience. Some of it was the crappy launch of that game, but steam had its own fair share of problems. It took an unbelievably long time to install the game that I supposedly bought on the disk, the program was quite bulky and unresponsive (the RAM usage was never the problem), and the fact that I always had to have the thing running to play it just seemed to be yet another annoying routine to may daily computer problems. I should mention I haven't bothered to take it off Vista's stupid blocked start-up programs, that is how useless it is.

The contrast to how Impulse performed was quite revealing. While I got that program for Sins, it did not come bundled with the game (at least it didn't have to be installed), could be played without Impulse and was much quicker and responsive. Indeed, it did its job well enough so I no longer care that it is now running in the background by default.

Because thread skimming is a great, fair, factual way to readjust your opinion of someone right?

Wow, congratulations on knowing nothing about the argument.

Brad won't buy Civ5 because it directly supports Steam since you have to have Steam installed and in use to play Civ5. That would be like the CEO of Pepsi buying Coke products.

Most people who don't like Steam are fundamentally opposed to a program controlling my gaming. If I want to play a single player game I shouldn't have to phone home to do it.

I adjusted my previous post. Read a bit more of the thread. I still don't really get the major argument in play. I'm still a bit (lots) snappish in my revision of my post. I understand the 'directly supporting Steam' bit, but it still seems. . .eh. Maybe that's why I'm not a CEO at Trump (Insert Business Organization Word). Dunno. It remains that I really don't see the fuss.

This is why I think it's possible that 2K received financial incentive from Valve.  If that is the case, you might have grounds for a lawsuit under the Sherman Act.  Then again, it might be a suit where you'd lose by winning.

I'd definitely be looking into such.

That said, I can't see this being that good for the longtime civ players due to the mods issue, plus at least twice in Civ 4's lifetime, they released borked patches that had to be quickfixes.  BTS launch patcch being one of those.

I can see potential for a disasterpiece/rage at some point due to Steam.

Okay I keep trying to read the entire thread before I post but this one post made me take real exception.

Windows vrs Linux.

I have 3 PC's in my home. One for myself, one for my wife, and unfortunately one for my son and schoolwork because I won't let him touch mine.

All three machines are built by me. I ordered all the parts seperately and built the systems to the specs I wanted in my gaming platform. Of course after I had them built I needed an OS. So of course for what I use my computer for I choose window and the current version was Vista.

I went out and spent 200 dollars on the OS which the cost alone almost made me consider a different OS. But I bit the bullet and came home and installed Vista on my machine and my wives. But because of the damn interwebz and having to register on it. I could not use my copy on both my machines. Nevermind I spent 200 F*ing dollars on an overpriced operating system. Nevermind that as far as I am concerned this is my property now. I had to buy a second copy.

This made me decide I had finally had enough of Microsoft's Bullshit. So I looked into what it would take to go either Mac or Linux. after some time consuming research I figured out due to what i use my machine for. While the other two were options. they were not really acceptable options. Too be able to run the selection of items I demanded with the simplicity I demanded. It was either windows or nothing. So I was left with a very unpalatable choice, though it was really a dictate dressed up in a choice.

So yes while it is nice in theory that the market will correct itself, The fact of the matter is while the free market may be the best option out there, It is by no means a reliable option. With enough market share you can effectifely neutrilize a free markets ability to correct itself. You can conquer the market without ever truely consolidating a monopoly.

Yes I thouroghly Dislike the fact that due to the number of games I own Hard copies of. I have Steam, Impulse, Windows Live, and god knows whatever 3rd party crap I shouldn't be forced to have but am. But if i want to play anything at all I am forced to choose all or nothing.

And when the choices are all or nothing....

You really don't have a choice at all.

I must be blinde, because I looked over my posts and didn't see anywhere where i said otherwise. Hell i didn't even say you had to use US court cases. By the way, this bs ACTA is basically taking the worst bits of the US law (DMCA) and trying to spread it.

Yeah see you're still doing it. Your laws might be different but what you are saying is not different. Copyright holders in the USA don't loose control of copyright matieral they're supposed loose control of the copies, copies, copies, individual legal copies. They never loose control of the actual material unless they sell it or never owned it in the first place. And copyright law is counter to DMCA which is why the DMCA was poorly drafted and thrown through in the first place.

loose != lose

After reading up on the Berne and WIPO Treaties (implemented as DMCA in the US) you should understand a little more about how copyright law is implemented across the World and how our law can apply to US copyrighted material in my case (and as such why in Australia the copyright holder retains control over how the material can be used).

i cun spel evary woord rong und yoo stil cun reed und undarstand. Cun yoo corect Anel!

In Canada, we learned to read in context at grade six. Not everyone in your world speaks or writes perfect English. I still don't know when to use there, their or they're. Well they're is easy but I always mix up the 1st (too or to or two). Laugh Out Loud!

I didn't point to a specific case law, that was someone else. I support taking the approach which is not the same thing. I am familiar with Autocad, but again, i didnt bring it up.

Maybe you should read the thread a little better to understand how copyright law is handled in the USA since we are talking about US companies in this thread. You still can't even acknowledge the difference between what you claim to be saying, and what you are actually saying.