Placeholder in case I ever use this later.

This is not going to be pretty, and maybe not that profitable in the short-term.  I am going to sound harsh, but I do want this to succeed, as I see the potential.  This is not intended as a slam on you guys- I hopee you know what I post here well enough, that you know this isn't just me begging or slagging.

Right now: the perception of this game is that it's unplayable, and that  buying a Stardock game isn't worth it until at least a year out.  That's not good for business.

 

Solution:

 

a) Next week, throw some mods on the site.  There have been some decent mods made already that help the game out.  The mod section needs to be more then just maps.

Get custom MP servers up ASAP after getting MP online.   MP will help with the balance, since people will make MP mods to fix balance issues.  That might be able to save you some manhours on balancing.  If possible, allow for mods to be used on SD servers (work with the mod community on this)

c) Keep up the good work on support overall.  I trust you guys fully on that, otherwwise I would be raging at you guys right now.

 

d) This is the part you might not like.  You're going to have to eat short-term profitability on this, in order to help in the long-term.

You'll need to be aggressive on discounting once you can.  (I understand you can't right now)

That said, the expansion.  It needs to be a stand-alone game, with a bug-free, very generous demo out a month before release.  Maybe even full game esque.   The burden of proof is right now, (fairly or not), on you guys to prove you can have a solid launch.  Showing the world what a year of your support can do for a game will restore your reputation (which is tarnished outside of here right now)

The downside is the fans who stuck it out will feel screwed over a bit, (I'm one of those fans) , but I think most of us would be ok with that , given the circumstances.  Maybe give us the expansion at a discount based on when we pre-ordered elemental, or a loyalty bonus on Impulse when we get it?  (not DLC, but a credit to use on other things)

e) Learn from your mistakes and don't rush future titles, even if it  seems to make business sense at the time.  It bites you back tenfold.

I never thought I'd be trying to tell a millionare how to run his business, but I'm trying to look at things from a cold, business side, not my gamer side.  As a gamer, I'd be willing to hand over my money- I know I won't regret this ride.  However, I know I got a minority opinion, and the Joe Average gamer right now- he's writing you guys off.  I'm worried about the long-term damage that could happen, and how it would mean lower budgets for SD titles in the future, and less ambitious future projects- such as GC3.  (I am motivated by self-interest here)

 


Comments (Page 10)
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on Aug 30, 2010

I think the biggest point is that many people are going to put the game on ice for the next 6 months.  It shouldn't be like that, it should be playable out of the box, or with the 0 day patch.

I for one can't play the game because of a memory leak, I like slow, epic games so I decided on large/epic.  Now after 300+ turns the game is out of memory every 10 turns or so.  And no I don't have an outdated computer.  I have a quad core 2.83 ghz, 8 gb memory with 2x Radeon HD 4850 crossfire. 

If I was the only one who was running into this problem, I would blame the rig, drivers, god's wrath.  But there are plenty of people who are dealing with the same problem.  So atm the game is unplayable to me.  It is a decent game, not great but not awful but mediocre.  Like people have said it is full of promises but fails to deliver, it's like a premature ejaculation followed by a post orgasmic depression.

I love strategy, I love tactical battles, I love roleplaying....but my biggest fear is that this game will just turn out to be mediocre.  The tactical battles aren't decently implemented, riddled with poor game design and lack of direction.  The spells are bland...heck they only go up to lvl 5 and the higher tier spells aren't even implemented.  Why even have a Constution stat when it only controls Hit points why not have a hitpoint stat?  If strength only governs attack why have a strength stat? you could solve character creation with Attack, Defense, HP, Essence and Magic Power.  Then the movement stats Move and Combat speed.  What I am most sorely dissapointed with asides from the bugs is the lack of game design which shows blatantly through the game.

Why am I ranting?  because I'm dissapointed.  I have been following this game for 11 months after I preordered it.  I lurked on the forums for ages.  I got so excited I threw the wife and kids out for the weekend (not literally) so me and elemental could get to know each other better.  I knew I could trust Stardock, they are the best publisher, developer out there.  Heck with the time I put in both Galcivs I could have learned three new languages and spoken them fluently.  But now I feel cheated, abused, dirty even, the guy with the candy had an agenda and my trust is broken

I will put this game on ice for a year or two and see what happens.  My most precious commodity is time and I'm not spending it on the game in this state.  Civ V is coming in 3 weeks so I hope Sid doesn't abuse my trust too much (even though he has already with dlc's and extra civ in preorder deals)

on Aug 30, 2010

I have been a long time customer of Stardock and was pretty happy until now. I bought Elemental purely on Stardock's reputation after briefly reading the description.

Maybe I am having more problems than most, but playing on a Win 7/64 (modern) system I am crashing so much, if it doesn't make the game unplayable, it makes me not want to play it. This is not a small thing, and based on some posts in the support forum, some people are having a worse time of it than me.

Plus there are other gameplay breaking bugs: chief among those the disappearing squad bug, when squads are reduced to 1 unit when saved/reload at less than max health. Resources not working correctly, cities not working correctly, bugged super monsters, AI players that don't have to obey the same rules you do, the list goes on.

I am not raging or hating on Stardock, I just expected more from a company that has "delivered" up to the present. Also, none of their other games released in this shape.....

 

on Aug 30, 2010


This is not going to be pretty, and maybe not that profitable in the short-term.  I am going to sound harsh, but I do want this to succeed, as I see the potential.  This is not intended as a slam on you guys- I hopee you know what I post here well enough, that you know this isn't just me begging or slagging.

Right now: the perception of this game is that it's unplayable, and that  buying a Stardock game isn't worth it until at least a year out.  That's not good for business.

 

Solution:

 

a) Next week, throw some mods on the site.  There have been some decent mods made already that help the game out.  The mod section needs to be more then just maps.

Get custom MP servers up ASAP after getting MP online.   MP will help with the balance, since people will make MP mods to fix balance issues.  That might be able to save you some manhours on balancing.  If possible, allow for mods to be used on SD servers (work with the mod community on this)

c) Keep up the good work on support overall.  I trust you guys fully on that, otherwwise I would be raging at you guys right now.

 

d) This is the part you might not like.  You're going to have to eat short-term profitability on this, in order to help in the long-term.

You'll need to be aggressive on discounting once you can.  (I understand you can't right now)

That said, the expansion.  It needs to be a stand-alone game, with a bug-free, very generous demo out a month before release.  Maybe even full game esque.   The burden of proof is right now, (fairly or not), on you guys to prove you can have a solid launch.  Showing the world what a year of your support can do for a game will restore your reputation (which is tarnished outside of here right now)

The downside is the fans who stuck it out will feel screwed over a bit, (I'm one of those fans) , but I think most of us would be ok with that , given the circumstances.  Maybe give us the expansion at a discount based on when we pre-ordered elemental, or a loyalty bonus on Impulse when we get it?  (not DLC, but a credit to use on other things)

e) Learn from your mistakes and don't rush future titles, even if it  seems to make business sense at the time.  It bites you back tenfold.

I never thought I'd be trying to tell a millionare how to run his business, but I'm trying to look at things from a cold, business side, not my gamer side.  As a gamer, I'd be willing to hand over my money- I know I won't regret this ride.  However, I know I got a minority opinion, and the Joe Average gamer right now- he's writing you guys off.  I'm worried about the long-term damage that could happen, and how it would mean lower budgets for SD titles in the future, and less ambitious future projects- such as GC3.  (I am motivated by self-interest here)

 

 

Most games don't care about mods .... this will not have huge impact on the fame.  The typical gamer wants a playable game out of the box.  Not one that takes mod to be fun.  If the game is fun and mod extends that fun .. great!  But, if you need mod to make the game fun .. Mod'ing will not have a large impact.

on Aug 30, 2010

empire2008

Most games don't care about mods .... this will not have huge impact on the fame.  The typical gamer wants a playable game out of the box.  Not one that takes mod to be fun.  If the game is fun and mod extends that fun .. great!  But, if you need mod to make the game fun .. Mod'ing will not have a large impact.

This is not most games.  This game was built with a primary intention of it being moddable.  In other words, it was a main focus.  Look to games like Neverwinter Nights 1 and Civilization 4 if you need a point of reference.  The modding community for Elemental will rival NWN1 (it would be hard to surpass 9 years and counting) but should easily surpass Civ 4.

Stardock mods and community mods will have an ENORMOUS impact on this game, and will catapult its longevity.  I would expect to see the life cycle of this game to reach 5 years as a result, potentially breaching a decade.

on Aug 30, 2010

Honestly, the game feels  unpolished. All the parts are there, and stuck together, they just feel like they have rough edges everywhere. But most gamers today really only care about polish and shiny gfx, so make of that what you will.

on Aug 30, 2010

I would think a lot more of SD if Brad had come right out and said "we broke the gamer's bill of rights as well as the trust of our fans" instead of "... then don't buy our games".

 

After a weekend of trying to focus on the potential I have decided to get a refund. I hope this turns around for SD, but as this was my first experience with them I will definitely always wait for a demo from now on.

on Aug 30, 2010

wynams
I would think a lot more of SD if Brad had come right out and said "we broke the gamer's bill of rights as well as the trust of our fans" instead of "... then don't buy our games".

 

After a weekend of trying to focus on the potential I have decided to get a refund. I hope this turns around for SD, but as this was my first experience with them I will definitely always wait for a demo from now on.

They did not break the gamers bill of rights.  If you feel it is unfinished, you can obtain a refund based upon your lack of satisfaction.  This adheres to the gamers bill of rights.

on Aug 30, 2010

2. Gamers shall have the right to demand that games be released in a finished state.

Released means the version that was pressed on the disk, right? I hardly think even the most pious fanboy would have called 1.0 a finished state.

Why are so many review sites holding back there reviews if this is finished? Why does the support forum have 1100 threads if this is finished? Why does metacritic have this at 44/100 if this game is so satisfactory?

Can you not acknowledge that this game is fundamentally broken? I fear this game will never realize its potential with so many on these boards feeling the game just needs a few tweaks. Every other rpg forum the VAST majority is calling it shite RPGWatch, AoWHeaven, RPG Codex, RPS, Blues News ... but we're the ones that are all wrong, you SD posters with 6 digit member numbers are the mans with the plans amirite?

on Aug 30, 2010

The game is NOT fundamentally broken, continue on your way please.

on Aug 30, 2010

greywar

Quoting psychoak, reply 131

Big picture, the shit has hit the fan press side, and Stardock has a lot of cleanup to do.  This release was not a catastrophic fuck up though, or 54/46 in favor of the game wouldn't be there. 

 

A 54/46 split in the intensely loyal fanbase for a publisher that had huge gamer goodwill (look how gentle the reviewers have been because of this very thing) registered to your own forums is a giant problem.

 


Quoting Mistwraithe, reply 132The crash bugs don't worry me, they will get fixed. The gameplay balance and making the many choices in the game all meaningful is where the real challenge is going to be because there is a lot of work to be done here.

 

I agree totally. I never cared about the bug myself (although people who bought the game without being diehard SD fans definitely did) but the design issues concern me deeply.

 

Its not a great number, the poll, but people could have put they hate the game or dont like it, but almost no one did. They put disappointed, and I am sure there were many people who were disappointed with the release who will change their minds soon or are hoping it will improve, so I don't see the poll as bad as you do.

on Aug 30, 2010

Can you not acknowledge that this game is fundamentally broken? I fear this game will never realize its potential with so many on these boards feeling the game just needs a few tweaks. Every other rpg forum the VAST majority is calling it shite RPGWatch, AoWHeaven, RPG Codex, RPS, Blues News ... but we're the ones that are all wrong, you SD posters with 6 digit member numbers are the mans with the plans amirite?

Sorry, but I really have a hard time believing that you pay attention to this site and forums at all by making such an assertion about "most people" claiming that it needs "a few tweaks."  "Most people" understand that the game needs work.  Even Stardock does.

Discussions abound about methods to improve the game.  These are open, civil discussions.  Most people are well past your point of "the game is broken and unfinished" and are currently moving forward.

on Aug 30, 2010

@Jharii

 

Yeah I read a bunch of forums regularly. Are you paying attention? 54% of people who visit these forums took a poll and said either they love it or like it and would recommend it. That is "most people" I am referring to. Had that poll been hosted somewhere a little less fan friendly, I assure you the numbers (ya know, out there in the real world) would not be nearly as positive.

on Aug 30, 2010

Jharii

Quoting empire2008, reply 138
Most games don't care about mods .... this will not have huge impact on the fame.  The typical gamer wants a playable game out of the box.  Not one that takes mod to be fun.  If the game is fun and mod extends that fun .. great!  But, if you need mod to make the game fun .. Mod'ing will not have a large impact.


This is not most games.  This game was built with a primary intention of it being moddable.  In other words, it was a main focus.  Look to games like Neverwinter Nights 1 and Civilization 4 if you need a point of reference.  The modding community for Elemental will rival NWN1 (it would be hard to surpass 9 years and counting) but should easily surpass Civ 4.

Stardock mods and community mods will have an ENORMOUS impact on this game, and will catapult its longevity.  I would expect to see the life cycle of this game to reach 5 years as a result, potentially breaching a decade.

BOTH Neverwinter Nights and Civilization 4 did not have a release like Elemental's.

Civ 4 was very fun on release and NWN had a perfectly decent campaign. Neither of them had major gameplay and playability issues. 

Yes, we get it, Elemental is very moddable, but we (most of us anyway) didn't pay for mod tools.

on Aug 30, 2010

Yeah I read a bunch of forums regularly. Are you paying attention? 54% of people who visit these forums took a poll and said either they love it or like it and would recommend it. That is "most people" I am referring to. Had that poll been hosted somewhere a little less fan friendly, I assure you the numbers (ya know, out there in the real world) would not be nearly as positive.

People that like the game (54%) does not equate to people that think the game "needs minor tweaks."  This simply means that they enjoy the game, bugs or not.  I thoroughly enjoy the game as it is, but it needs some significant work.  I think that most people that enjoy the game fall into this camp based upon the numerous threads that I have been reading.  So you are making an assumption that is not based upon anything other than your assumption.

on Aug 30, 2010

You are aware the entire magic system is still broken, right?  95% of the spells are unimpacted by shards, don't point to the proper variables, and/or don't function the way they are supposed to.  Many are gamebreaking (confusion). 

No way that a game predicated on magic should be released with the magic system broken.

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